From a debate between Daniel Lee and David Miller:
Dear Miller,
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua!
What are you talking about????
Servetus was placed in a deep, dark dungeon, living in bile and filth AT THE BEHEST AND APPROVAL OF JOHN CALVIN! Why are you disputing this blatant historical fact???????
Furthermore, Calvin was given power by the civil leaders in Geneva in which Calvin, for years, drenched the city in blood by killing those who opposed his doctrines. This is such a clear and irrefutable fact of history, I am staggered that you would deny this! Shall we break out the sources or do you want me to save you the embarrasement?
Cite specific evidence as to how I have mirepresented history. Back up your words, idiot.
Miller: "As for my keeping of Torah, I have explained my beliefs, that I keep every jot and tittle."
Daniel: Yes, yes, and a Gnostic might make the same statement and mean that he is keeping every jot and tittle because Jesus is somehow mystically obeying it for them inside their soul. This is what stupidity my dad believes in. Thus the need for SPECIFICITY. Why do you cower and cringe at the Light I bring? Why not make manifest your deeds???
I did not say you had previously accused me of being devil possessed, I said that even if you did or if you desire to do so, go ahead. That will not change the facts. Cope long ago said I was filled with devils and that I probably believed I was "one of the two witnesses". I even have that email printed and saved to prove his words against me. I figure if you decide to follow Cope unto perdition in that regard, I would warn you ahead of time. Got a problem with that?
Although you still do not deserve Matthew 5:19 and its explanation in regard to your question, I will do so for the sake of those reading this exchange.
Miller -- WHERE DOES THE HOLY BIBLE EVER SAY YOU CAN DISOBEY YAH AND STILL INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE???? HMMM????
Thousands upon thousands of scripture declare the exact opposite -- THAT OBEDIANCE IS NECESSARY TO GAIN ETERNAL LIFE.
So then why, all of a sudden, would Matthew 5:19 state that those WHO DISOBEY THE COMMANDS OF YAH WILL MAKE THE KINGDOM OF ETERNAL LIFE??????
Here is the answer.
Whosoever shall keep and do the Torah, the SAME SHALL BE GREAT IN MY KINGDOM.
Whoseoever shall not keep and teach against my Torah SHALL BE KNOWN AS LEAST IN MY KINGDOM.
It is not that they are least within the kingdom, it is that they ARE KNOWN AS LEAST BY THOSE WHO POPULATE THE KINGDOM. They are least, trash, a dunghill, sick, gross, vomit. They are least. David "least" Miller would apply to you, as you burn in the Lake of Fire, as your legacy is known as least by those who humbly walk in Yah's commandments.
This is the ONLY interpretaion that would make logical sense of the biblical record. Your interpretation would contradict thousands of other scriptures.
This is but one example of how your pride and foolishness has turned you into an idiot.
"But just three years later, Geneva persuaded Calvin to return, which he reluctantly did in 1541 (13 September). His power now nearly absolute, he wielded it with godly gusto. The Council declared that Calvin's Institutes were a "holy doctrine which no man might speak against." Jacques Gouet did so and was imprisoned for impiety in 1547; after severe torture, he was beheaded. Within five years, Calvin passed 58 death sentences and exiled 76.
For the heresy of doubting the Trinity, Miguel Served y Reves was arrested and tried by the Catholic Church in Vienne. Michael Servetus (as he is now known) had actually debated Calvin in 1534 and somehow got the idea that Calvin stood for religious toleration in Geneva. But that was the old Calvin, the one without the power of a state to bolster his bigotry. Little did Servetus know that it was Calvin who had denounced him to the authorities in Vienne. Indeed, Calvin was miffed at Servetus's criticism of his Institutes and vowed, "If he comes here and I have any authority, I will never let him leave the place alive."
Friends helped Servetus escape the frying pan of Vienne only to enter the fire of Geneva in 1553. He was arrested and tried for heresy, but the verdict had been pronounced before Servetus ever entered Geneva. He was burned at the stake on October 27 with Calvin's complete approval. When Sebastian Castellio (1515-1563) wrote, "Let us who are Christians not condemn one another, but, if we are wiser than they are, let us also be better and more merciful" in his pamphlet, "Should heretics be persecuted?," Calvin merely banished him from his comfortable commune — a luckier break.
Exile and death, rather than persuasion by example, were the chief tools Calvin used for the enforcement of what would later be called Presbyterianism. As Robert Ingersoll described him, with only slight exaggeration, "Calvin was ... a strange compound of revengeful morality, malicious forgiveness, ferocious charity, egotistic humility, and a kind of hellish justice. In other words, he was as nearly like the God of the Old Testament as his health permitted" ("Heretics and Heresies"). Calvin died in the year William Shakespeare was born, 1564, one of the more equitable trades in history!"
I have to go clean a house but will refute the rest of your nosense upon my return. The above cited source of history which you can find at http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/rants/0710almanac.htm is but one of MANY historical proofs of how derganed and devilish and wicked Calvin was.
I have returned from cleaning my house and now will deal with the remainder of your NONSENSE.
In addition to the source I sent you earlier this morning, YOUR OWN SOURCE THAT YOU USED CONDEMNS CALVIN AS A MURDERER!!! Go back and re-read what you sent me; although the author takes a more sympathetic approach to Calvin, EVEN YOUR SOURCE ADMITS TO HIS APPROVAL OF MURDERING PEOPLE WHO DISAGREED WITH HIM.
Yes, as the atheist Ingersoll pointed out -- CALVIN IS AS MURDEROUS AND WICKED AS PAUL HILL AND THE REST OF THE KILL EM' FOR JESUS ABORTION CULT WACKOS. Deal with it. History is irrefutable, even when it comes to someone as insane as you, idiot.
Why bring Ken Jones into this???? If Ken stated that once someone sins they can NEVER repent, something I know KEN JONES HAS NEVER PROMOTED -- then ken would be an absolute idiot. But how does that have even the slightest iota of bearing upon our debate????
You are completely useless and wicked. You promote murderers like Calvin, while condemning murderers like Paul Hill. You openly oppose yourself. You cite sources in which Calvin believed the Law of Moses was not abolished and thus tried to uphold it THROUGH HIS TWISTED, DEMENTED MIND AND THUS DID NOT UPHOLD TORAH AT ALL -- yet yourself refuse to admit specifically if you uphold the Torah.
You are a walking contradiction, openly opposing yourself, a blasphemer and a shit-face.
You are a piece of poop that needs to be flushed down the toilet of heresy as fast and as furiously as possible, drained out into a underground aquifar where you will be desiminated, sucked into the ground and used for fertilizer to feed the grass of humble cows. WICKEDNESS IS WHAT YOU ARE.
I abhor you (Romans 12:9).
I hate you. (Psalm 5:5).
You digust Jesus, you hate YHVH and Jesus HATES YOU WITH A RIGHTEOUS BURNING HATRED.
You spout out bullshit from your mouth as if your lips are nothing but an anus hole and it reeks everytime you do so. YVHH YAHSHUA SAVIOT REBUKE YOU, YOU FOUL, FOUL, FOUL SERVANT OF SATAN!
You are a liar and bear false witness, hypocrite.
The source you said showed how Calvin approved of martyring indivudals. THIS IS MURDER.
Show me one instance in the whole Tanakh where someone was stoned for "blaspheming YHVH". You know not the Torah you claim to love. The Pharisees interpreted Torah much as you do, but not Moshe and certainly not YahShua.
Calvin DID BRUTALLY tortute Servetus which was proved by the source I provided and the link to verify the source. What do you want? More sources????
Calvin did NOT uphold Torah; it is immaterial what he believed. Calvin was a blasphemer, taught wretched doctrines and tortured and murdered dozens of people.
Calvin's execution of Servetus was in now way akin to the execution of Paul Hill. Paul Hill comittied a crime against the USA government. What crime did Servetus commit? Apparently Servetus was guilty of DISAGREEING WITH CALVIN!
I have provided numerous other examples in my citation of others Calvin disagreed with of whom he sentened to death and/or banished.
Ken Jones does worship intellect or pseudo-intellecutalism; I do not. Prove otherwise or retract your false accusation, liar.
I do not say you promote Calvinistic doctrine, you fool. I say you promote A DOCUMENETED MURDERER, THE MAN JOHN CALVIN. Learn to read, idiot.
As for Servetus being placed in a deep, dark hole -- this is accurate but I have as yet not provided a source for this information. Why should I when you do not even read the first source I provided for you establishing facts that you still dispute???
In your blind support of Calvin the man, you are advocating the Protestant Inquisition that even heathens like Ingersoll can see is wicked.
Are you going to grab a shot gun and plow down someone you deem is a blasphemer???? THEN WHY DO YOU EXCUSE CALVIN FOR DOING SUCH A WICKED THING???
What a wicked wretch you are.
Leviticus 24:23 is a man being stoned for "cursing out of the camp". He BLASPHMEED THE NAME OF YAHVEH AND CURSED.
Did Servetus do this????
OF COURSE NOT. Servetu's big crime was to DISAGREE WITH CALVIN'S DOCTRINE.
I have already provided you both a source and a link proving the numerous people Calvin himself personally brought to the stake, tortured and killed.
Calvin was sent into exile BUT THEN EVENTUALLY RECALLED -- CALVIN WAS IN CONTROL OF GENEVA FROM THAT POINT ON. Servetus, as well as a multitde of others, were THEN MURDEED BY CALVIN.
Why do you continue to ignore the source I sent to you?????
Why would you wrongly claim that Schaff has more credibility than a "spinmeister" on the internet. Obviously his deviant sexual activity is due to him being an idiot atheist but has no bearing on the article as it was written in scholarship and uses quotes from cited sources, including the very learned 19th century atheist Ingersoll. Your claim is both stupid and lacking in any justification. You're really getting desperate, aren't you?
I guess you did not read the article I sent you, liar. There is a sentence, which I have a mind to copy and paste, which plainly says Calvin TORTURED AND KILLED several people, even beheading one. It amazes me how blind you are. But this is what your grand canyon pride does to you, wretch.
Obviously the author as the wrong persepctive of God anyway, since he falls into Marcion error -- which, incedantally, so does about everyone on this list. Regardless, this again does not negate the scholarship of who Calvin actually was. Yah has made you fat, your ears dull of hearing, your eyes blind because of the pride you continue to bask in. Unbelievable. I've seen Satanits witches and hard core porn hooked jezebels softer than you, david "least" miller.
I don't copy and paste your response because YOU have imposed your oral Talmud upon yourself of not sending your messages to the bulk list. I won't do your work for you, idiot.
Happy to make a fool of you though.
Daniel, you keep changing the point everytime I prove you wrong.
Daniel: No, I have not. Prove it, please.
You had just previously written to me the following:
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Show me one instance in the whole Tanakh where someone was stoned for "blaspheming YHVH". You know not the Torah you claim to love. The Pharisees interpreted Torah much as you do, but not Moshe and certainly not YahShua.
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So I produced a passage, Lev. 24:23. What is your response? Is it a humble, "oh, yeah, sorry David, I see you were right and I was wrong. The Tanakh does have an example of someone being stoned for blaspheming YHVH." No, this is not your response at all. Instead you write:
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Did Servetus do this????
OF COURSE NOT. Servetu's big crime was to DISAGREE WITH CALVIN'S DOCTRINE
Daniel: Again, idiot, your original contention was that Servetus has "blasphemed Yah" which really was nothing more than Servetus disagreeing with Calvin over the pagan doctrine of the Trinity. You then claim that people were stoned for "blaspheming Yah". I was using YOUR INCORRECT understanding of "blaspheming Yah" in the context of Torah. And I am still correct. You will not find a single instance in all of Torah where someone was stoned for "blaspheming Yah" in the poor way you understand the term.
In Leviticus, you have an example of man who got into a fist fight with another, then cursed Yah's name, a blatant violation of Torah. Servetus did NO SUCH THING yet you arrogantly claim it was he who "blasphemed Yah's name".
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You obviously are not reading the case against Servetus. The charge was blasphemy against Yahweh. In particular, Servetus called Yahweh Cerberus, which is a demon in hell. He also was frivilous in asking whether or not God had a spiritual wife or was without sex.
Daniel: And this was justfiication for CALVIN TO TORTURE AND MURDER SERVETUS???? I don't think so, idiot.
You also should consider that Servetus agreed with Calvin's doctrine of executing heretics and blasphemers. He called for Calvin to be put on trial and exterminated. Read what Schaff wrote in the following:
Daniel: Actually, according to your source, Servetus was merely using the very wicked means Calvin had supported and proposed to be used in his blood bath AGAINST CALVIN HIMSELF. Yah does this as well, by giving liars over to a lie that they might believe a lie. Servetus was righteous in his call for Calvin's torture and murder as he was merely calling for Calvin's wickedness to FALL UPON HIS OWN HEAD. If anything, your latest source bolsters my position and makes Servetus into a righteous individual, at least in that instance.
Again, the author's professional career has nothing to do with his scholarship of history. You are grasping at straws here. Stop mocking my source and dare to refute the FACTS that this man presents.
If Schaff claims Calvin did not have civil control of Geneva, Schaff is shit. Numerous encylopedias and historical accounts verify Calvin had civil control and influence over civil authorities and even attributes Cavlin to his "proetstant inquisition". I have already presented one source, want me to break out the encylopedia now?
Calvin lied about his reaction to Servetus. Calvin, according to my source, is quoted to have said that as soon as Servetus showed up in Geneva, he would not allow Servetus to leave the city alive. Are you going to believe a liar like Calvin about what he said when his enemy was near him, or what he said when his enemy was far away and he had no reason to hide his guile and malice?
Again, fool, I never said you were a promoter of Calvisnism, but you are of the man Calvin. You defend a man who thought it was okay to use the power of the state to murder those who disagreed with his doctrinal positions. This is so clearly the facts presented in historical accounts that to deny this is borderline insanity. Then again, you are ruled by selfihsness which means you are insane.
1. You have falsely said that Calvin brutally tortured Servetus. I have proved that such never happened.
Daniel: No, you have not. Even Schaff admits that Calvin permitted Servetus to be exterminated. My source elaborates on this truth by clearly implicating Calvin in the torture and eventual martyrdom of Servetus. You have not disproved my source except to attack the author's character. That is called ad hominem and betrays your desperation at trying to hide from the FACTS.
2. You have falsely said that Servetus was put in a deep, dark dungeon, living in bile and filth AT THE BEHEST AND
Daniel: This is historical fact, bonehead. However, I am not going to cite my source until you stop disputing the FIRST source I have presented through your ad hominem attacks.
Daniel: Schaff is LYING ABOUT CALVIN'S TREATMENT OF SERVETUS.
Fact: Calvin had Servetus put into a shit-pile at the bottom of a deep, dank hole, and laughed and scorned Servetus, while pretending to be the pious reformer. This is historical FACT and those who are lead of the Ruach are easily able to discern as much. Schaff, like Calvin, is a liar although even he is unable to fully repress the Truth as he at least admits that Calvin tolerated the brutal deaths of those who disagreed with him.
I have plenty of fellowship with believers in Messiah -- Brother Mark of Portland, Oregon; Brother Chris Barr of Missouri, Ruben Israel of California, Sister Sarah Mitchell of California, Yochanan of Wilsonville Oregon, Hezekiyah of Newburg, Oregon . . .etc and ad infentum . . .
I have NO FELLOWSHIP with the works of darkness.
Mr. Miller, I do love you, however your pride and wickedness is a stench to YHVH. I would that I could be cut off for your sake, and that the rain of the Ruach might melt your heart of stone. But you vomit out such filth, such wickedness, such repeated lies in your defence of wickedness, that your very emails vex the souls of the righteous.
I pray you find true humility and repent rather than continuing to be naked in your false humility of devlish vomit.
You are defending Calvin; this is fact. You support a man who, because others did not agree with his doctrinal positions, used the power of the state to murder dozens and dozens of people he deemed blasphemers and enemies of Yah. I have proved this both through my source and even, though more sympathetically, through the sources you have brought to the table. Again, it is amazing that you are still disputing these facts of history.
You have not proved that Servetus was an astrologer, liar or blasphemer. You have told me he was; Schaff, who has lied about at least one fact of history, has not even been so bold as to lay these charges against Serveuts in regards to astrology (unless I overlooked it). But this is immaterial; even if Servetus was in fact guilty of all the above -- CALVIN STILL WAS NOT JUSTIFIED TO TORTURE AND MURDER HIM AND MANY OTHERS LIKE HIM!!!
You claim I walk in the "same spirit" as Servetus -- did you not heed the rebuke I gave you through the Ruach concerning Romans 2? This is a problem that constantly dogs your every step, miller. You still foster sin and wickedness, pride and hatred within your heart, yet you try and set yourself up to judge another man. You yourself do not keep Torah, yet you try to use Torah to judge others. You are evil, who are you to judge another man, o wretch?
Specific sins of miller:
1. Lying about plain facts
2. Attacking the character of my source without even disputing the facts the story, except by attacking the character of the source
3. Refusing to specifically and categorically state if you keep Torah by answering my speific questions, even after I answered yours
4. Twisting the word of Yah, such as Matthew 5:19, to allow saints disobediance
In contrast, I have remained pure, holy and righteous in my defense of both Truth and historical fact. I have, by the spirit of zeal and longsuffering, suffered much of you and identified you as a piece of shit in Yah''s eyes. Rather than humbling yourself as the bitch of Cannaa did, you continue to harden your heart. Understandably, elsman and webber have not aided you insofar that they have also joined in their constant sinful attacks against me as well and thereby given you comfort. But webber and elsman are complete reprobates and I would hope you would not want to join forces with those servants of Satan.
These are but some of the many sins you have comitted in the past 48 hours.
You use James and say both cursings and blessings come from my mouth.
YahShua blessed the discples and CURSED THE PHARISEES IN MATTHEW 23 -- does this mean YahShua was in violation of James? No, of course not. David blessed Yah and yet called down curses upon his enemies -- does this mean David was in violation of the not yet written book of James? Of course not, David was filled with the Ruach when he composed those Psalms.
Again, yoour illogical, inconsistent and poor handling of the Word is but another indication of how blind, wretched and sinful you are.
My wife, by the way, did not call Jennifer a name. I was on her email and accidentally responded under her name and I even apologized to my wife and told her I would make this clear. However, even if she had called Jennifer a piece of shit -- this would have been fully consistent with Holy Writ and the Ruach ha Kadosh. Please meditate on Ezekiel 23.
You again misues Holy Writ. Yes, a man who causes divisions you are to only give 2 admonitions. You have given me MANY MORE THAN TWO. So even there you have failed to obey the Word if you indeed believe I cause divisions.
In the gospels, we read of YahShua also causing a division amongst the Pharisees. Paul caused a division over the doctrine of the resurrection; does this make them one who causes divisions in the Body? No. Thus you can apply this to me; you, Mr. Miller and webber and elsman and most of the people on this list are NOT the Body of Messiah but the WHORE OF SATAN.. The sooner you grasp this, the better it will lead you to repentence.
Again, for the SECOND time, I urge you to read the verses I gave you in Romans 2 entitled "kicking your ass #6". I implore you also from the book of James -- to weep, mourn, purify your hands, you sinner, to humble yourself so that YHVH may draw close to you. Right now YHVH is resisting you and it is only a mark of his geerosity and mercy that He sent me to confront you at all in your wickedness.
Please repent, Miller -- I will find no pleasure in your eventual eternal destruction in the Lake of Fire.
